western airlines 2605 cvr
In that accident investigators warned of the danger of trusting ILS signals without checking raw height/distance data. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. along with what sounds to be "turn left." This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. By logging into your account, you agree to our. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. If such an experienced pilot can become the victim of such circumstances, A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. The nose gear did not contact (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. the ground at any time. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos (?) We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. done flyin'." Privacy Policy. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. In the video you hear the last screams of the pilots. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . Wow!! The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air For more information, please see our By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. Presumably the incident that FA Valenciana wrote about in his book (incidently changing the names of the pilots which is probably for legal reasons but not so much that you don't know who he is talking about) where Gilbert is yelling at Reichel would be captured with context by the CVR. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). All times are GMT. Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. Its pilots loved the plane. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. their compatability. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Presumably this is the point of destruction of the plane. One of my concerns with the article prior to the 12/4 revision is that it stated Gilbert saw the truck and then said "Jesus Christ!". But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners The inducement of the 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. . [3] The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. I have cleaned up the background. surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. 68 people died in that crash. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) as the cause of each accident. on it, except than the official one. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. But then, with fog-banks etc giving them problems, visual contact was with 23L but not 23R; they reckoned they had slightly overdone the lateral separation and moved left to correct it, and so lined up with 23L . RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . [9] . By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 1.5K. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. This is most certainly not what happened. 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. The aircraft continued flying just clear of the ground near taxiway Alpha.". Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. CAPTAIN A.O.D. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. Cockpit crew coordina 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. The CVR may in fact be missing information. A part of the CVR is widely available online. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. More importantly pilot errors occured. Quoting . More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. On October 31, 1979, at 5:42 a.m. CST, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City International Airport in fog, after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners On top of all this, the - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. Our large helicopter section. Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. tion was a concern in all accident. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. The concern was that both the deal and tourism would be negatively impacted if Mexico took most of the blame for the deadly accident. mined by the investigation board. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. I'd like to reply to yours as well. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' The fact that Reichel didn't call out altitude may not have mattered although it was something he was assigned to do but doesn't necessarily mean this caused the accident or that the crew was unaware of their altitude: - unsigned contribution at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40, split out as new para at 20:30 and amended at 20:32 by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contributions), 25 December 2019, The crew sounded wide awake to me. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Lombard wanted to fly. Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed He Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. I haven't been able to find more info. - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? . and our disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Might be good to add that detail. Making things even more confusing the recorder was apparently pierced and an erase mechanism was reported to have been briefly actuated. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. The violent crashing is clearly heard. This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. Here's an author who unconvincingly defines ALPA's purpose. It's pilots loved the plane. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. [3] When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. will not be used to prevent other accidents. Can we correlate these similarities to previous and future accidents at that time of the DC-10? Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. . If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. What time is it in Saint-Ismier? check out the. Most of them are weak premise. With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. has he? (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. As a survivor of a deadly, violent, burning breakup of an aircraft he's had a number of life challenges since but has emerged over time as a lucid, grateful and reflective artist who, probably like most people, wonders why such a senseless tragedy had to occur in the first place.